I've always had a PC, and while I've used a Mac a few times - rather unsuccessfully, I might add - I can't tell you anything about them.

I was, however, in the Apple store today, and guh, the big screens are so sleek and pretty.

/unhelpful>

Aren't they just? ♥ Although the Apple store I went to had a 30" HD screen and...I'm sorry, but nobody needs a screen that big. It's obscene. XD

I'm going to be equally unhelpful as my h0r good friend dreaminoflorien by saying that I don't really like Macs. They are hella pretty, and the ones in the computer lab at school run faster, but they are also brand new and the PCs are about 3 or 4 years old. I don't like the way things are set up on a Mac programwise, but that is all personal taste. The screens are incredible though. I wish I could just have a mac monitor and hook it to my PC. Hahaha. That is Mac/PC slash right there for you.

How've you been? Long time now talk.

P.S. Did you change your layout? Because when I clicked on the entry the layout was blue and when I clicked to comment it was black. Freaked me out a bit. Haha.

Bwahahah h0r.

I approve of this PC/MAC slash.
P.S. Did you change your layout? Because when I clicked on the entry the layout was blue and when I clicked to comment it was black. Freaked me out a bit. Haha.

Same for me. Only it was purple when I clicked it, turned tan, and now it's black.

I wish I could just have a mac monitor and hook it to my PC. Hahaha. That is Mac/PC slash right there for you.

Neeheehee.

Yeah, it's been a while since I've spoken to you. >_> I've been...well, 2006 in general can be summed up with the phrase 'please insert another quarter and try again', but I'm doing well at the moment. ♥ My new AIM is 'daleks are sexy' if you want to drop me a line.

About the layout...yeah, I just switched to Flexible Squares and there's no previews for the themes, so the only way I could see what they looked like was apply them and then refresh my LJ. It didn't occur to me that anyone else might notice. XD

I battle both on a daily basis, so here's my two cents....

1) Not 'never,' but in my experience, certainly less frequently. Much more commonly applications will lock up and need to be quit/restarted, but crashes happen, too.
2) Not 'never' either, but definitely less frequently. The problem we had was a bunch of old Word files that had a relatively benign macro virus, which did little except (a) replicate across Word docs and (b) trip virus protectors on e-mail servers, so that trying to e-mail the Word docs would be met with silent failure. But that's been the only virus-related problem we've had.
3) It's certainly arguable, I think, but I guess that's as close to truth as we can get without overcomplicating the discussion.
4) Sure, if there are Mac versions of the games you want to play. They may have the game you want to play now, but what about in six months? I'm not convinced in studios' willingness to develop for the Mac platform.
5) Easy, I think. Not necessarily inexpensive.
6) Yes, yes, but do require the occasional d/led updates, too. They're less likely to be left heaps of smoldering steel because of a security exploit, though.
7) Arguable, again, but I can understand why and how people say that. It gets a lot of the noise of "computing" out of the way and gives the user more face-time with the actual creative process and the applications used.
8) Definitely not just for posers, but they do tend to be just a bit pricier.

For my money, if I had ~$1K, I would probably invest in a Intel MacBook, Parallels, and go with the best of the XP and OS X experience without closing the door on either.

This was really helpful, thank you. ♥ I was worried about the cost of rebuying all my software in Mac flavour, but I've discovered that a lot of my stuff is available on the cheap with a student license (Adobe Creative Suite for £180? Bring it on, baby). I don't know if I'd ever have so much need for a notebook that it would offset the extra cost of getting one at a decent spec, but that's the first I've heard of Parallels - I'll def. keep it in mind.

ooh, parallells. love it.
And your icon! I have one of those!

I've had A LOT of experience with both. Right now I'm on my PC, which is probably about the same as your dell. Still gets the job done, but its aging and I push it well beyond what it should be capable of every day.
I also have an older powerPC that we use as the media center in my living room. It's running the latest version of OS-X, and even though it's slow (a 400mHz G4) it still gets the job done. Quite well too, with it's gig of RAM.)
I've also worked a lot on the imacs, G5 powermacs and the new intel macs. And not just simple things, I do a lot with Photoshop, CAD, Final Cut, etc. So I tend to push computers a good amount.
So, to answer your questions:

1) They can crash sometimes, but nowhere near as much as a PC in my experience. As with any machine, if you push it far enough, they'll freeze up. Thing is, it takes a lot mroe to push a mac to that point. I crash my PC easily twice, maybe 3 times a week. The mac hasn't crashed in 4 months. And it hasn't been turned off.

2)False. That's why they make antivirus and spyware programs for macs. You can still get popups, some spyware, etc. But those aren't designed into the core of OS-X. they're low-risk problems, and are still possible because they affect the specific programs or browsers, or are programs that install themselves to your OS. Just because of the Unix core under OS-X's hood it's more difficult to write viruses for it. So there are much fewer high-risk programs that actually embed themselves into the OS and make things bad.

3) OS-X, despite what they say, isn't the perfect OS. It has its quirks, but still isn't as bloated as WinXP. But, it's written to take advantage of the hardware. Because the motherboards in a mac are still to a point proprietary, OS-X is programmed to work smoothly with the specific motherboards and architecture. That's partly why OS-X hasn't been released for a standard PC yet. Windows can run on a mac now, and even though it will run faster simply due to the streamlined architecture and design of a mac, OS-X will always run better on a mac than PC (when and if it comes out).
It handles memory differently, and i'm not sure of the specifics but its done in a way that more memory makes more of a difference. That's why my old G4 can still handle semi-modern applications.

1) Haha, really? Given that my PC has crashed twice today, I would consider 'once every four months or so' to be roughly never.

2) You're brushing at the edges of my technical expertise, but I understand what you're saying - thank you. iGoatee lied to me, apparently. *shakes fist*

3) I think this is roughly what I was told, but...you did it better.

Thanks so much for giving such detailed answers! This is exactly the sort of help I wanted. :)

4) Depending on if the games you play have mac versions (Sims 2 dies, and its pretty. It does matter what hardware you have as well. An eMac won't run them as well as a g5 or core2duo Powermac, but that's an issue that you'll find regardless of PC or Mac. I put macs at equal with PCs for gaming, for the most part. You'll pay more, probably, for the PC that gives the same specs for gaming as the mac.

5)I've never had a problem finding software for my mac. These days there are tons of developers that release programs for mac. Sometimes, yes, you won't find a program you want, but now that macs can run Windows natively, it's a much smaller issue.

6)Out of the box, they're probably a bit easier than PCs. Apple doesn't pre-load a bunch of useless software to your mac, for one. Everytime I work on a new computer or one of my friends gets a new one, I take it before its ever turned on and wipe the windows install, starting over to do it right and optimize it correctly.
Updates are rarely actually needed. I disable updates for windows right away. They're not really necessary if you take care of your machine and keep it in good shape there's nothing to worry about.

7)These are the best-known purposes for macs. And they do an unbelievable job at them. Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Cad, InDesign, everything. They have some really impressive programs that are only for mac too, my favourtite being Apple's Aperture. They handle the hardware-rapage of programs like photoshop and Illustrator beautifully.

8) It's a bit complicated. Performance per dollar is better, in my opinion. It's not just about raw speed, it's about productivity, ease of use, time saved, etc. You'll spend less maintaining a mac. For a relatively powerful mac that will suit your needs ,you'll spend a bit more. Sure, you could get a $300 dell or compaq, but electronics is one of the few markets where for the most part you get what you pay for. You'll spend a bit more for a mac, but it'll be worth it.

With macs finally finding their spot in teh computer market and their ability to compete alongside PCs, they're a great option for a new computer. It's also a matter of personal preference and what you're used to. Some people just can't grasp the change between OSs. Still, I know people who have grown up on PCs and switched to mac, and even the other way around. It's a matter of what suits your needs for a computer.

I have a Mac and a Windows box that I switch between. I would never touch the Windows box if I wasn't addicted to two games that don't have Mac versions. One still claims there will be a Mac version in the future, and if that ever happens, I may just give up on the other one.


1) Macs 'never' crash.
No. But they don't crash nearly as often as Windows. It's certainly my fault, because I sometimes go for weeks without shutting down or restarting it. I put it to sleep instead of shutting it down, something I could never do with Windows, because even before it mysteriously refused to go on standby without totally crashing, three days up and it completely freezes up.

2) Macs never get viruses or anything suspiciously similar to viruses
There aren't near as many viruses and the like made to target Macs, so while they can still get viruses, it's not near as often.

3) Macs use their hardware resources more efficiently.
Sorry, I have no idea.

4) Macs are as good as PCs for games. (This is more an issue of curiosity than anything else. I don't play any games other than The Sims 2, which runs like a river of congealed blood and jagged rocks on my PC)
Sims 2 works fine on my Mac, a little better than on my sister's Windows box (before it died completely), and it did work pretty well on hers in the first place.

5) It is reasonably easy to find all the software you'll need for a Mac.
If you have a brain. I, unfortunately, do not, and have to rely on my sister's.

6) Macs will run out of the box, are easy to get to grips with and do not require a never-ending stream of auto-downloaded updates.
True. It honestly scared me how soon I was up-and-running.

7) Macs are better for designers and artists.
Windows≤Macs
Windows isn't better than Macs for that purpose, and may or may not be worse.

8) Macs represent better value for money than PCs and are in fact not just for posers with disposable income.
My dad buys all our computers, but I've heard enough about Dell to say... Hell yes.



(And although an incredibly aggressive move by their marketing department, the Mac vs PC ads are funny. Mac/PC slash, anyone? I'll go sit in a corner until I've repented for having that thought.)

*Totally hasn't had the same thought*

Lol, I believe you. ;) Thanks for the answers - it's so refreshing to see something other than the usual standard of debate on the issue, which is 'PCs are inadequate' versus 'Macs are gay'. >_>;

My entire life, I've been running between the two systems, always cuckolding one or the other at some point. Now, I'm nowhere near as computer literate as you (damn your wiles!), but seeing as I'm an actor, I'll give you my emotional response to both.

PC:

The PCs I had were always like parents: delightful and charming to other people, condescending and full of wrath towards me. I depended on my PC for regular sustinence of internets, games, and that adorable Space Pinball thing that was on it straight out of the box. I watched my vids in relative peace, and I downloaded music illegaly with glee. After all, how could a system be terrible if Windows 95 came equipped with the music video for Weezer's "Buddy Holly", causing my brother to wear Weezer t-shirts before they were cool?

But that was before the dark times. Before the Empire.

The PC punished me swiftly for my grievous deeds (such as accidently downloading spyware/viruses/horrible, terrible things through pirated music and programs), and with that came irrevocably lost school projects and fanfics the latter clearly more important than the former. I felt dejected and alone, and the bright colours of the late-90s/early 00s Mac desktops mocked me.

Mac

Way back in the day when Where's Waldo? was the most challenging book I had ever read, my parents and I still played around with the black-and-white Macintosh in our family room. I think my parents procured it around the time of the Red Scare, but I can't be too sure...at any rate, it was a disgusting grey box with the shittiest paint tool in the world. That was Mac.

However, after utterly destroying my relationship with the PC, the sense of divorce was palpable. The famblee bought an iMac, with the impossible skinny screen, and the HD contained in one stylish half-sphere, perched primly on the desk. It was beauty incarnate. It seduced me, and we instantly eloped.

I could have all my important PC amenities on the Mac - AIM, MSN, and IE if I so desired (which I did not). I could download what I needed to as far as software went, and I quickly integrated with the system. It staved off the viruses. It was harder to download and watch episodes of Ranma 1/2, but it was possible. It had a function where I could call it John Stamos and demand it tell me a joke. It had GarageBand.

It was true love.

In university, I have an iBook G4 (which I know is technically out of date, but it works wonderfully and it's supported me all these years); we have DC++ in residence, which means we can quickly and easily share and download movies/music/etc. - however, it's not really compatible with Mac, but that's solved by ShakesPeer, which has a Mac app. Be that as it may, I still have to get someone to set it up for me, because I'm kind of retarded like that.

In Summation:

Macs are all they're cracked up to be, but they can still get viruses, and there are some things (like a lot of computer games and bizarre plug-ins) that won't fly. Be that as it may, in my opinion, the good outweighs the bad.

Sorry I can't be of more help on the Photoshop and Illustrator front - I haven't had any experience with either of those programs. Alas.

Honestly? Space Pinball is the only feature unique to Windows that might make me hesitate over getting a Mac. If Vista doesn't have it, then they're completely fucked and I'll have nothing more to do with them. Sorry, Bill - you have my brother and my parents, but I'm blowing this popcorn stand.

I used the emotionally abusive boyfriend analogy in my original post, but in my situation I'm thinking of Windows as a stoner roommate who's reading something impenetrable like Maths With Extra Squiggles. It loses and/or destroys your stuff at random, it communicates in incomprehensible messages scattered all over your room, it completely overreacts every time it catches a cold off you, and half the time it's so stoned it'll collapse on your bed with no provocation and take half an hour to recover. And it won't even put a shirt on when your parents come to visit.

Right now, my situation is this: when you leave the room and storm in frustration down the corridor, you hear soft music from the room next door. You know that Mac's room is immaculately tidy, all his CDs are in alphabetical order, he'll leave you alone when you want to get on with your work and he'll hold a meaningful conversation when you feel like it. And - yes - he'll even answer to John Stamos.

You want to move in with Mac so much, but you're scared that he's secretly a Scientologist and when you wake up he'll have signed you up to their club and flushed all your meds. Also, someone so well-presented is probably gay. It's probably worth it, but you want to ask a few mutual friends first.

*cough*

Thank you for the advice, Kat. ♥ Since I spend far less time considering relative efficiency and viruses than I spend going 'YOU STUPID &@%!ING MACHINE!' and tearing cables apart with my teeth, an emotional response is just what I needed. X3

Well, to be honest, a huge part of your problem isn't your Windows, it's your Dell. After all, your computer is a helluva lot more than its OS. Dell drives me nuts by "saving" money in substandard parts, which aren't bad per se, but when they are coupled with better components in certain areas, they don't play nicely. This leads to gaps where no OS will be able to close off security interference.

So, let's look at what you have:
1. Of course they crash. Any conflict in an OS, no matter which one you use, will cause a crash or at least a partial shutdown. The difference could be in that Macs have a more streamlined OS, which is possible in XP with a little cleaning up.
2. Yeppers. There is NO substitute for a virus protector AND a firewall. You MUST have both.
3. The most obvious difference in the OS alone is that Macs have perhaps 2 steps to every 4 of Windows. Do they still do exactly the same thing? Yes, completely. But that is where you see the "efficiency" difference. Macs just don't take as many steps. I don't think it's a valid reason solely to switch, but that's what most people point to by saying Macs use their components better.
4. Games....This has nothing to do with your Mac vs PC, and everything to do with your graphics card and memory. Sims2 runs slow because your graphics card is out of date, and probably has what they call "integrated memory". What that means is that the game runs both on the graphics card AND on your computers memory. A "dedicated" graphics card, with at least 256MB of its own memory, will run the game on the card mostly alone, which will keep your computers memory from slowing it down and causing hiccups.
5. Everything is gettable. I would recommend checking out a few stores near you that you like to shop at to see if this is true where you are. If you live in London, sure, maybe so. You live elsewhere, not so much.
6. Ready to go out of box and actually a plus, because so much is nicely integrated.
7. Again, this is more due to your programming and memory, not the computer itself. Also where a good graphics card and a good amount of memory will do wonders.
8. They are not really a better investment just by themselves; a better made computer period is a better investment. But no, they aren't for posers. You use your computer a TON. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for you and what you like the best. Screw anyone who tries to put a label on it.

If you aren't sure Mac is enough for you (and they do run more expensively, programs and all, because they are propietary), I would suggest NOT going with a Dell in the future, nor any other cut rate assembly service. Sure, they can "customize" it for you, but all that does is give you a few quality components, and the rest are skipped out on. You are better off either buying or making a model that has superior components, and doing your own customizing. That way your computer is reliable and can handle your changing needs.

I'm sure you can tell that I am the sort that builds her own computer instead of relying on a company to do it for me. But it's easy enough to get that even from a company. Just don't go for a "specialized" version. ANY computer you buy should have a dual core processor, a good size harddrive, sizeable memory, and a graphics card with 256MB or more (512MB is even better, and they go in the 680MB range right now, for bigger bucks). That coupled with a motherboard that can upgrade, and the remainder will fall into line. Add to that good security with a firewall, and you should be able to set it up and have it run continuously with no problems. I've had mine for over three years now, self-built, and I've only had it crash two times, both times because of a power short that affected the power supply (power supplys run about $80). I leave mine running 24/7, as it is hooked up to a broadband connection.

In short, it's not necessarily your operating system that should make your decision. By all means go with a Mac (and do you honestly care if people think you are a Mac geek, as long as your work is safe?) but check your components, the relability ratings, and don't be attracted to anything that paints itself as a "gamer's computer" or a "student style".

Dell drives me nuts by "saving" money in substandard parts, which aren't bad per se, but when they are coupled with better components in certain areas, they don't play nicely.

Well, that's me told. Honestly, it worked very nicely for a good long while, and my parents' Dell seems to do everything it's set up for without much complaint. Of the computers I've had, the Dell has actually been the best (my Advent just...melted about twenty minutes after the warranty ran out, and I don't even want to think about my dabblings with Hewlett-Packard), it's just getting old.

2) Yes'm. I learnt this to my cost when I was eleven. Realising that there were monsters that crawled onto your computer and ate all your crappy fanfics was not a pleasant experience.

4) I think my current graphics card has 128mb dedicated memory and all my games worked fine when I first got it, but...I couldn't rely on that to last.

5) It must be said my favourite store is Amazon, so I can't see this being a problem. When I do want something in my hands the day I buy it, Manchester isn't far off and there's an Apple Store nearby, so although I live Oop North I'm not entirely divorced from civilisation. ;)

Thanks very much for the rounded view on things. When I go computer shopping I'll keep what you've said at the forefront of my mind. (and I really don't care if I'm considered a 'Mac geek', although if I do get one, I will have to beat up my brother until he stops snickering at me about it. Wanker.)

I have both, but I am a recent convert to mac and have almost exclusively been using my mac. There are laptops, mind you. I love it. Everything works. Anyway,

1) Macs crash much less than pc, in my experience, but it will also save your work and come back up the way you left it.
2) No one makes viruses for mac, thus they do not often get viruses. You'll want some software though.
3) My mac runs the things I need to do faster and more tidily than my pc runs the things I need to do, ie. photoshop.
4) Yes.
5) Mac software is easy to get a hold of. You can also steal mac software pretty easily. Mac communities are helpful here. Also, programs and printers and other installable items you can buy come with a mac install CD.
6) It takes maybe 10 minutes out of the box. You turn it on, put in your info, and go.
7) See 3.
8) The money/time I spent replacing parts for my pc is worth less to me than the money I spent on my mac.

Abominable snowmen of ice planet Hoth, that's a lot of comments.

Anyway. I am the proud owner of both an iMac (2003) and a PowerBook (2005).

1) Almost never. The number of times my Macs have crashed ever is roughly equivalent to how many times a day my PC used to crash.

2) Pretty much true to my experience. Fuckwits have just never really bothered to make viruses/spyware for Macs, and if they have, the Macs' security program (which updates regularly and never at any charge, so fuck off Norton/Macafee) has always blocked it.

3) Generally, they are pretty damn quick. My old Gateway never moved so fast, nor do my uncle and stepdad's Dells. Granted, I do occasionally have issues, especially with the iMac (which is getting old), but it's still faster than any PC I've used recently.

4) Far as I know, yes. I only play the Sims/Sims 2 on the computer though. Sims 2 can't run on my old iMac (video card isn't advanced enough) but it runs fine on my PowerBook. Granted, if I have a three-story mansion with eight people in it, it goes a little slow.

5) I've never had a problem, though to be fair, it does tend to take longer for said software to come out for Macs.

6) Yes, and this is one of the primary reasons I love them.

7) About 7 years ago, you practically had to have a Mac to do design stuff. I think PCs have caught up, and last I checked they were making new software for PCs faster. However, PhotoShop always worked a helluva lot better on a Mac than a PC for me.

8) My iMac recently suffered a breakdown thanks to Microsoft software I put on it. However, it should be completely fixable (I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet). They really are about the same price as PCs, and I think you get more value for your money (less shitty software you'll never use, better quality software/programs in general, and the OS is just plain better than Windows by leaps and bounds. They are not wonder computers-they will still occasionally fuck up, cause frustration, and act in mysterious and insane ways. But they will do it far less often than a PC will).

I am a recent Mac convert. They put in all new shiny 24'' iMacs at work and I love mine. The thing about the new Intel Macs is, you can install Windows on them - either using Parallels or BootCamp - so there's really no comparison with a Dell ;) Go for the Mac :)

The designers at my place have the Mac Pro for the designer coz they're more beefy and run the graphic programs.

This is a good page: http://www.apple.com/getamac/whichmac.html

The thing with Macs is, if some exploit or virus (very rare) is released for them, Apple release an update straightaway. Whereas you know what Windows is like. I mean as they become more mainstream there may be more, but as Macs don't advertise themselves on the network/ internet - it's less likely.

With games, as I said Parallels of BootCamp and you can run your PC games on there fine, without having to rebuy. A guy at work has Sims for the Mac, and he seems happy with it (has a Mac Mini).

Macs are better money. I'm curretnyl saving up for a MacBook Pro coz my old HP laptop is on its last legs. And When my PC finally gives up the ghost again, I'm getting a Mac. No contest.

Ok, there are a few things you have to get used to. But there are plenty of sites out there on the net that help people convert. Plus the best thing. No IE as default ;) Plus there are a whole bunch of freeware programs. And OpenOffice, etc. So it's not expensive to get a whole bunch of programs you're used to running on your PC.

I think I managed to kill my Mac once since I got it several several months ago. And that was just an extreme overload due to my development environment (and I think I may have been running Windows on it as well). Whereas my Dev PC crashed regularly.

I've never used a Mac, but whatever you buy, don't buy a Compaq Presario unless you plan on having a fast internet service. I've had two compaqs; one being ten years old now and the other being one year old.

The older one crashes several times, and needed it's memory swiped to fix the problem. Though for being a ten year old computer, it preformed quite well when my new one crashed and I was forced to resort to the old one. But I had a good internet service (Comcast) and Movies and clips didn't play very well.

My new compter has been fairly dissapointing, we had to get all the USB ports and Motherboard replaced a few months after we bought it, and just had to send it back to the company to get it fixed because it wouldn't load up at all.

I don't know if this helps at all but yeah haha.

1) Macs 'never' crash. (for 'never', read 'never so long as you're not a complete moron')
*If a mac crashes it's usually due to an overload... it's more of a freeze, or a program unexpectedly quits.

2) Macs never get viruses or anything suspiciously similar to viruses
*People are trying unsuccessfully. I doubt we will actually see one in our lifetimes for the mac system just based on it's archectecture.

3) Macs use their hardware resources more efficiently. (i.e. a 2ghz Mac with 1gig of RAM will be faster than a PC with the same specs. iGoatee explained this to me in a way that made sense right up until I left the store and got distracted by pretty lights and music)
*it's because of the way that the operating system operates.

4) Macs are as good as PCs for games. (This is more an issue of curiosity than anything else. I don't play any games other than The Sims 2, which runs like a river of congealed blood and jagged rocks on my PC)
*as long as the game you want to play has a mac version.

5) It is reasonably easy to find all the software you'll need for a Mac.
*very true. need anymore help go to http://iusethis.com

6) Macs will run out of the box, are easy to get to grips with and do not require a never-ending stream of auto-downloaded updates.
*sometimes require updates, but it will ask you if you want to download them first. for any download actually.

7) Macs are better for designers and artists. (this is very important. Photoshop and Illustrator are the only programs I use which are particularly demanding hardware-wise)
*I wouldn't say better. Right now photoshop and illustrator run slower because they are not running natively.

8) Macs represent better value for money than PCs and are in fact not just for posers with disposable income.
*this is very true. if you want a machine that will last i suggest buying a mac. sure i still do suggest getting applecare, but your machine will actually be compatible and last for the next 3-4 years.

anymore questions you can email me @ kidmillionaire@mac.com.

It is often noted by many notable and note-worthy sources, that I know nothing. Nothing worthy of note, at least.

I do, however, know where to find computersex:

http://www.fictionpress.com/s/2035797/1/

I.. must have shown you this at some point, surely? It's so awesome! *___*

1) they do if you're running 5 adobe programs, microsoft(eeew) word and some java crap in safari(preferably firefox),and have less than 1 gig of ram.

2) true!

3) hell yeah, they run on Unix, which has true multitasking.

4) yeah, some of the best games are for macs.

5) yesyesyesyesyes

6) *heaven*

7) yeah. theyre much more visually pleasing than PCs too.

8) ...

no comment on that one.

PS:
VISTA = CERTAIN DEATH